Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes

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It hasn't made the carebears safe, just safer.
Now all they need to do, is limit the freedom in starter corporations and it's a great change.

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Originally by: Arthur Frayn

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Originally by: Gaia Thorn

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So its finally happend the carebears have taken over eve.

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Having a bit of a whinge?

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Originally by: Arthur Frayn

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Originally by: Gaia Thorn

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Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes

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It hasn't made the carebears safe, just safer.
Now all they need to do, is limit the freedom in starter corporations and it's a great change.

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Well why would you need to be safer ?
Why is it always the pvp'ers way of life getting nerfed whilst the carebears roam around free with no need for adaptation ?

Why do the idiots need protection from the smarter in a game that is suppose to be a unforgiving harsh enviroment ?

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Maybe the devs decided they no longer wanted a game universe which is a step backwards from the 21st century, with a society where crimes like murder are effectively unpunished.

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Originally by: Arthur Frayn

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Originally by: Gaia Thorn

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Then maybe they shouldnt make quotes saying that this isnt a fluffy happy happy land. Which it is rapidly becoming.

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Feel free to rage-quit over it.

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Originally by: Divad Ginleek

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Raven: 70-75ish mil to build, 32 mil to insure, around a mil to fit for torpedo gank (t1 siege launchers and BCUs)= 103-107 mil.

platinum insurance payout: 108 mil

net loss/gain for suicide ganker: 1 mil + phat lootz.

unbalanced game mechanic: Priceless.

i don't understand why so-called "hardcore PVPers" whine so much when an obvious error in game design is fixed. could it be that the ones crying loudest are the true carebears watching their isk faucet being repaired and yelling about it and throwing a fit like little babies?

get out there and work for your isk like the rest of EVE and maybe more people would sympathize when your profession gets "nerfed" (read: fixed).

i think the security penalty changes will make more of an underworld culture and bring pirate organizations closer together (as well as open up more trade opportunities in lowsec, thereby providing targets for the pvpers). who knows, just let the change come, try it out, and if it is obviously overdone, they will change it to make it more balanced. to me it sounds like a redirection of the game to bring it more in line with what highsec and lowsec should mean. highsec has never been safe for the carebear, now its just as risky for the sharks as well.

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Originally by: Andrue

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Originally by: Gaia Thorn

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Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes

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It hasn't made the carebears safe, just safer.
Now all they need to do, is limit the freedom in starter corporations and it's a great change.

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Well why would you need to be safer ?
Why is it always the pvp'ers way of life getting nerfed whilst the carebears roam around free with no need for adaptation ?

Why do the idiots need protection from the smarter in a game that is suppose to be a unforgiving harsh enviroment ?

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Because there's more of us. CCP are running a business and they cannot afford Eve to be too harsh. There aren't enough blood-thirsty weirdos in the gaming community to keep such a thing going.

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Originally by: Trebor Locke

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Originally by: Gaia Thorn

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the one thing about this game was the options i had i felt i could do whatever i wanted.

That choice is rapidly being removed by CCP

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Suicide gankers currently are the best match to the word carebear more than any other kind of person. Industrialists have had to adapt in many ways where 'fake pvpers' (such as yourself) havent had to adapt. In truth, there is no real adapting to random suicide ganking of Industrial Ships. Well, unless you want to afford a nice shiny transport ship (which requires specialized skills that are extremely hard for newer players to obtain. even older players for that matter. About 1-2months of training to "Adapt").

I'm very glad these changes are happening as they are much needed. Especially with the insurance.

Also, I have lived out in 0.0 for quite a while. Ganking is not PVP. It's a massacre. Player vs. Players assumes your target can fight back :)

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Originally by: Trebor Locke

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Originally by: Gaia Thorn

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One thing.

who is gonna buy youre ships ?
since the carebears sledom lose ships in missions and if they do build a new one from the salvage and recycling of mods ?

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Simple, the rest of the EVE universe. All those orginizations called 'Alliances.' They tend to buy em in bulk during war time :)

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Originally by: Trebor Locke

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Edited by: Trebor Locke on 06/08/2008 07:39:49

Who cares about kills on battleclinic? I've always been a logician and have managed tactical and economic structures. It takes money to PVP after all and what better way to fund it than with someone who knows how to make money and how to cut off anothers trade? This game is 80% about economics and 20% about what you actually do with the equipment.

Also, Battleclinic has a VERY old record of me [which I do prefer] and doesn't even include several killmails (both kills and losses) that I have been recorded in.

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Originally by: El'Niaga

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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Originally by: El'Niaga

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EVE is suppose to be risk vs reward.

Currently their is little to no risk for the pirates/gankers in hi sec. They get more than their ship back in insurance.

This helps level the playing field. You can still gank in hi sec. If your doing it for fun you can blow up anything, just be out what you spent on it. If your trying to be a pirate, then you need to make sure its worth it as a target. (Use a Cargo Scanner, and a Ship Scanner...)

Below .5 the change in insurance will not affect anything.

The sec hits as described make more sense.

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Where is the risk for the npc corp level 4 mission runner in a CNR? When there is risk for him I would gladly support a nerf to suicide gankers.

Increasing risk is not nerfing the reward, increasing risk is implementing things like tradable killrights and fixing the bounty system. This is just a plain nerf.

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When he gets into low sec, that or he has to accept less isk a day as you get one from almost any level 3 or 4 agent within 5 jumps of low sec at regular intervals. He can choose not to take those, but doing that more often than once every 4 hours hurts his ability to do it in the future.

The other way is to flip his cans and hope he's stupid or that he shoots at you. Most are sadly and then you kill them, since they have a global and can be shot without concord interference. Indeed that is how most mission runners are killed today, not by suiciding. Most suiciding targets industrials, mining barges, freighters, exhumers and transports.....

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Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes

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Originally by: Serj Darek

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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Funny how all the carebears are saying "adapt or die!" when a week ago they were the ones who've been failing to adapt and whining for the past...two years?

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QFT!

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Just as funny as seeing all the suicide gankers crying foul now

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Originally by: Sheriff Jones

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Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 06/08/2008 08:41:52
Here's another LOGICAL example for you who complain about "carebears winning":

You say; "EVE is a harsh cold place!"

Ok, let's go with that. It's a cold bad place.

Fine enough? Good.


When someone says; "Yes it is! Let's remove insurance!"

What do you say? Riiight.

So which is it? Cold and harsh? Or cold and harsh but only if you're not a pirate/ganker!

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Originally by: Siigari Kitawa

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Gaia can I have your stuff :3

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Originally by: Gul Rashen

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Edited by: Gul Rashen on 06/08/2008 10:52:41

Originally by: Ki An

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Originally by: Gul Rashen

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First, i live in Low Sec and am a PvP'ler
I only run Missions to pay my Accounts with ISK.

That Missions are too easy is different Problem. But its in my interest that many ppl play EVE and its ok for me that they play it in a different way than i do. For the Missionrunners pimping their Ships is one of their goals in EVE. And why not? I like Ganking and i like PVP, but i don't like ganking without any risk and possibility for the victim to protct himself.

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Saying that gank victims have no possibility of protecting themselves makes it painfully obvious you don't PvP, so stop lying about that.

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I talk about Suicideganking Missionrunners. What possibilities have they? Fly with cheap Fitting or stay on Station? Lol. And beware of saying that ppl are lying you don't know. Thats not nice and kiddielike.

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Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: Axhind

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Should have been the main thing for CSM. Kick the bastards out of the NPC corps (by limiting attacking, ships they can use, mission levels, whatever). Plus they need to fix the jump corps when war decced crap too. It would enable a lot more PvP in empire as NPC corps are used only for avoiding war deccs now days (and it's not only empire carebears there, there is plenty of 0.0 alts there too).

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Unless you also remove all control PC corps have over who can and can't join their ranks, this is a utterly moronic idea. You want players out of NPC corps? Then all limitations to joining PC corps must be removed as well. No more interviews; no more vetting; no more waiting for the CEO to accept you û just click "join" and you're in. Kicking people out would probably still be allowed, but guess what û click "join", and they're right back in. Sound like an awful idea? Yes, but that's what will be required.

You see, you don't get to tell me what people I must play with. I do. If I choose not to join a PC corps because I can't find one that a) isn't run by complete morons and b) doesn't require previous experience/tons of SP/inside connections, then that's my choice û not yours. If you don't like it, you can go jump in a lake.

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Originally by: Stab Wounds

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Edited by: Stab Wounds on 06/08/2008 11:27:34
hahah grievers had this coming for a long time. maybe you grievers in this thread should try fighting people that can fight back? first the nano-nerf and this. This game is turning out quite well.

Adapt or die losers.

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Originally by: Kelli Flay

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Hello idiot. This is to inform you that you have had what you wanted for what?.....four years now?

I am not seeing the "short end of the stick." I am seeing a shortage of brain cells on your part though. Lot of whining too.

Adapt noob.

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Originally by: Crae Matreki

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I can't believe people are threatening to quit over this!

The sec status changes are so-so.. it'll make things a bit slower to undo the damage, but not too much. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

The CONCORD changes sound interesting - if there's less ships, and no insta-lock from the battleships, won't that mean it's possible to tank them long enough to get a few more volleys off? It might actually work out better for the ganker in some cases!

The no insurance for CONCORD-related crimes makes sense - the gankers will have to think about what they kill again. Risk vs reward!

All in all, highsec still isn't safe, and I'm sure the idiots in their T1 haulers will still lose billions, and they'll still complain on the forums.

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Originally by: Neesa Corrinne

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Originally by: hedfunk

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Originally by: Neesa Corrinne

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This doesn't change squat, and it hardly spells doom for EVE.

Even -10.0 sec status individuals can simply go rat in 0.0 for a few hours and be back to positive standings.

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Yes, because you can rat from -10 back up to -1.9 in 'a few hours'.

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Yes, you can. I've done it many times.

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Originally by: Neesa Corrinne

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It's extremely easy. You kill a battleship, jump to the next system and kill a battleship, jump back to the first system and kill a battleship.

The timer between kills resets every time you change system.

L2P before telling me I have no clue what I'm talking about pls. kthx bai.

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Originally by: Zaknussem

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It figures. CCP does something to correct a problem in their game, and people whine about it on the forums. I can't wait for the Infiniband upgrade to roll round just to see what types of whines will come up then.

For the people saying "EvE is a sandbox game" and, in this particular case, the OP's words:

Originally by: Gaia Thorn

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I whine cause CCP is turning this game to shit cause they promote it as a sandbox but every patch that comes out the remove a fair bit of that sand from our box.

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I have a few points for you.

# This isn't your sandbox. This isn't your sand. You're allowed to use them, but you don't own them. If/when the owners of said box and sand decide to change something, your only choices are to keep playing in it or leave.

# Remember the sandbox you used to play in when you were young? Go out and find it. Chances are good you won't find it. Why? Because sandboxes are dying out. Because they're being abused. They're being used as toilets and trashbins by people that take the "Do whatever you want" idea for granted.

(Note that in this case it doesn't matter if you clean up the box and/or replace all the sand in the box, these same people will just come back and do the exact same thing, simply because it's there.)

# Assuming you find your old sandbox, do you expect it to be unchanged? To have the same exact same (amount of) sand that you used to play in, or even the same type of sand? To still have the original paint, or the original sandbox walls? Even sandboxes change in 5 years, whether you want them to or not.

# The carebears took over EvE a long time ago. Or haven't you looked at the ratio of players in Hi-Sec vs Lo- and/or No-Sec? Or is that the topic of your next whine? Or maybe you've already whined about that fact?

Now on to another thing. While reading this thread, especially the part about NPC corps, an idea came up. Granted, this idea isn't as hot since I read Tippia's answers (which are very good points in that argument, may I add) but the idea is this: Many skills cannot be trained on trial accounts to prevent exploits, but what about preventing some skills from being trained while the player is in an NPC corp? What would be the good/bad points of this idea?

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Originally by: Qui Shon

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Originally by: Gaia Thorn

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And yes i can leave the game if it doesnt fit and im almost at that point where im actually considering it cause im getting less and less of pvp and more and more of blobbing.

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Bye.

So can I have your stuff then?

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Originally by: Qui Shon

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Originally by: Gaia Thorn

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Sigh cant you atleast put it in some funny form cause thats just a waste of space.

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No, because then it would obscure the point, which is that I'm mimicking griefer posting templates.

Now please cry some more.

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Originally by: Jazlina

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Edited by: Jazlina on 06/08/2008 13:43:29
I want to start my saying that I have never been effected either way. Neither ganked nor been ganked. But I have pvped and 0.0 ratted so I know what this is all about. I agree with the changes. They are logical and repair a game mechanic that has been faulty. Remember that not much has changed. You can still attack and kill people in high sec, the consequences are just more steep now. After all, isnt that what pirates are all about, consequences?

What is the first thing a pirate tells you when you get ganked in low sec. He lectures you on consequences for entering low sec doesnt he? When you get gate camped? More consequences. Well now the situation is turned around and the pirates are facing "consequences" and they dont like it anymore than the guy who just got gate camped. Well that is eve. In eve concord provides consequences, not safety. That hasnt changed at all. You can still attack anyone, anywhere ( far more generous than any other mmo I can think of, they all have absolute safe zones) So please all you gankers out there that will have to actually work for your money, get up off your lazy butts and do something productive for a change.

Now that that is out of the way i can say this. ROFL at pirate gankers for getting some poetic justice.

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Originally by: Kelli Flay

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Originally by: Gaia Thorn

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Originally by: Jazlina

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Edited by: Jazlina on 06/08/2008 13:43:29
I want to start my saying that I have never been effected either way. Neither ganked nor been ganked. But I have pvped and 0.0 ratted so I know what this is all about. I agree with the changes. They are logical and repair a game mechanic that has been faulty. Remember that not much has changed. You can still attack and kill people in high sec, the consequences are just more steep now. After all, isnt that what pirates are all about, consequences?

What is the first thing a pirate tells you when you get ganked in low sec. He lectures you on consequences for entering low sec doesnt he? When you get gate camped? More consequences. Well now the situation is turned around and the pirates are facing "consequences" and they dont like it anymore than the guy who just got gate camped. Well that is eve. In eve concord provides consequences, not safety. That hasnt changed at all. You can still attack anyone, anywhere ( far more generous than any other mmo I can think of, they all have absolute safe zones) So please all you gankers out there that will have to actually work for your money, get up off your lazy butts and do something productive for a change.

Now that that is out of the way i can say this. ROFL at pirate gankers for getting some poetic justice.

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Lol
we need to get off our lazy butts ?
How about u bears that slowboat to the gate with billions in cargo.

Cause i bet my left nut that the majority of suicide gankers go for the afk haulers and not those that warp zero to a gate.

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And you can still kill them....what is your problem exactly?

Christ, stop crying.

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Originally by: Kelli Flay

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Originally by: Serj Darek

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Originally by: Kelli Flay

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Originally by: Serj Darek

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Originally by: Kelli Flay

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blah blah blah noobs

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Get out of your alt closet and post with your main? Or are you afraid?
Otherwise the n00b l2p comments from a 3 month old n00b corp character is pretty contradicting.

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Yawn....the tired old "get on your main" crap.

My main agrees with my alt. They both think you are an idiot. Therefore, does it really matter which one says it?

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As a matter of fact, I think it does.
You won't stand up for you opinion.

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Okay, i will state the obvious. People use alts to post on the forum because they want to express their opinion but don't want to get their corps/alliance war deced by the kiddies here.

However, that doesn't mean the alt poster doesn't have a valid opinion. It also isn't an act of cowardice either because the alt poster is just protecting his corp mates.

People who say alt's posts do not matter are either just trying to goad the person into using his main or are idiots themselves who are delusional and think having a ticker under his name is some sort of intellectual badge of honor or validates anything they have to say no matter how clueless they are.

Anything else you need explained?

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